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Sep 12, 2024 · 48 minutes

("Best-of" from 6/18/2018) Dr. Walter E. Williams, George Mason Distinguished Professor of Economics, steps into “The Corner” to discuss Capitalism vs. Socialism.

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0:00 - 15:00. Provers 3:1-8. Christ profession but practical atheism is prevalent within Churchianity 15:00 - 31:00. Dr. Walter E. Williams, George Mason Distinguished Professor of Economics, steps into “The Corner” to discuss Capitalism vs. Socialism. 31:00 - 48:00. The world’s hopelessness set the stage for clear Gospel presentation. Lets not allow eternity to fade into the background of temporal living. or call: 800-326-4543 To donate call : 877-616-2396

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Transcript

5,756 words, in two-minute parts. Made by machine, so a few words may be off.

0:0048:18

  1. 0:00

    Darkness is not an affirmative force. It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light. This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio. It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite. Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media. And the philosophies of this world. God has called you and me to be his ambassador. Even in this dark moment. Let's not miss our moment. and now the Hamilton Corner. Good evening, welcome to this On Your Way to the Weekend Baby edition of the Hamilton Corner Here in American Family Radio and Urban Family Talk. I'm your host Abraham Hamilton the third and I'm excited to be able to offer today's program to you. Many of you are making your way as I often say. From your part time job to your full time jobs, please remember to not allow yourselves to offer your maximum fruitfulness outside of your homes, only to come home and offer your families to the leftovers. Now, we have to properly understand that the first ministry we are called to as Christians is to ministry to Jerusalem, ministry in home. All too often, people sacrifice their families on the altar of external fruitfulness and external ministry, only to realize after they have burned the candle that both ends to come to the latter parts of their lives and realize, man. I should have invested more in my family. Let that not be said about you. Let it not be said about me. But let us have a proper understanding of the great commissions called to Jerusalem, to Samaria and the uttermost parts of the world. We don't want to sacrifice the uttermost parts of the world because we are exclusively focused on Jerusalem. But we certainly don't want to sacrifice Jerusalem in an effort to win the world. We can do both. And that even reminds me, I had a guy tell me one time, eight, can you ask me, not tell me, can you really serve God and have a family?

  2. 2:02

    It was a young man, he was trying to decide whether or not God was calling him to be a husband and a father, and because he had such a heart for God, he had got some bad teaching, quite frankly, along the way where he was told that you can't really serve God fully and have a family. And I say, man, I guess that must be newsflash for Apostle Peter, who was married by the way. And must be a newsflash for the Apostle Paul, who though he was not married, he wrote by the function of the Spirit of God. He feeds in chapter five, he feeds in chapter four, and he feeds in chapter five specifically, where husbands are called to wash our wives with the water of the word. So it's just unfortunate that those are the types of communications that are made affirmatively and overtly and even passively, when we have people all too willing to sacrifice their families. Family is the first ministry because family is the first institution ordained by God. Well, I'm glad to be with you again. I'm going to start today's program as is our custom and in the scripture. And we're going to begin with Proverbs chapter three, just, just going to be versus one through eight. Proverbs chapter three versus one through eight. And this is just a reminder. You know, this is a novel information. This is just a reminder of what the Lord really requires of us and desires for us. So here we go. Let's get started. I'll read it first. Then we'll talk about it a little bit. Verse 1 in chapter 3. My son, do not forget my teaching, but let your heart keep my commandments. For length of days and years of life and peace they will add to you. Let not steadfast love and faithfulness forsake you. Bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart so you will find favor and good success. In the sight of God and man, trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your path straight.

  3. 4:16

    Be not wise in your own eyes. Fear the Lord and turn away from evil. It will be healing to your flesh and refreshment, refreshment to your bones. Oh praise God for his word, for his words. So right off the bad. This writer in Proverbs in chapter 3 is writing as a father to a son, which by application, or should I say by implication will also apply from a father to a daughter, from a mother to a daughter, from a mother to a son. This is sound godly wisdom where the encouragement is, okay, you've received all of this teaching, and this is referring to the first two chapters so far, but don't forget it. Don't allow the teaching to be He shelved in your heart and shelved in your mind, but to keep it active. And it goes further says, but let your heart keep my commandments. It's amazing that the phrase there is let your heart, which really is a term of permission, a term of admission where the fatherly advisor is advising his two, his two, his disciple if you will, to allow your heart to keep my commandments. Isn't that amazing? it really conveys the true prospect that we can deny our hearts and minds from receiving and applying the commands of God. And when this Old Testament reference to the heart hit there, it's not talking about the four chambered, the chambered organ that disseminates blood throughout our physical body. The word heart there in Hebrew is a reference to the seat of human consciousness and volition. the seed of human consciousness, emotion, and volition. Let not your reasoning capacities, your emotive capacities, and your awareness capacities deny the truth of the commands that they bring offer to you. Verse two, because then the result of your heart embracing these commandments are for a length of days and years of life.

  4. 6:18

    And peace they will add to you, isn't it amazing that the first commandment with promise of the under the 10 commandments? That's citing from Exodus 20, but written in Ephesians chapter six is honor your father and your mother that your days may be long on the earth. This is the first commandment with promise. Could it be? Could it be this rash of violence amongst the, amongst the younger people in our communities, amongst the crime written communities around the country, even in many of these schools where the children are, are angry and rebellious, could it be that the lack of value for life is related to an unwillingness to honor fathers and mothers? Now of course that may seem too spiritual but too biblical for some, but the word of God is true because the Bible tells us in Ephesians 6, Exodus 20 that honoring our fathers and our mothers will result in length of days. here in Proverbs 3, the heart of the disciplee that is receiving, accepting and applying with consistency, the teachings of the disciple are, will result in peace and length of days added to them. Could it be a young man who grew up like I did in the New Orleans, this Lord, Ninth Ward, when your father says, hey, I don't want you hanging out with those drug dealers. it be that if little Abe refuses to heed the instruction of his father that little Abe's life could be put in jeopardy. As a result of rejecting the wisdom of father. I'll go on. Let not steadfast love and faithfulness, King James here says, mercy and truth forsake you but bind them around your neck. Bind them around your neck. This communication is that these things should be a perpetual and consistent reality for you. Not a fleeting visitation to what we visit them when we're in church, but we abandon them, we outside of church.

  5. 8:20

    Well, we develop this kind of disassociative spiritual identity disorder, where we act one way around one group of people and we act a different way around other groups of people. No, this would be the consistent manner of living for us. Write them on the tablet of your heart. There's so much I can say that when I'm going to keep going because I'm trying to get to a particular point. Again, verse four, as a result of obeying, heating these instructions, verse four says, so you will find favor and good success in the sight of God and man. There is great benefit to yielding to the Word of God, to submitting our hearts, submitting our way of living to God's Word. There is great benefit there. Then we come to verse 5 and this is really where I want to go. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean to your own understanding isn't it amazing that the proverb writer lays a table before us a feast of insight that complete absolute 100% trust in the Lord with all of our hearts again same word seat of human consciousness seat of human volition and seat of emotion emotive capacities trusting in the Lord with the full thrust of all of our human reliance is mutually exclusive to leaning on our own understanding. To say it differently There's no way you can lean on your own understanding and simultaneously trust in the Lord with all your heart. Can't happen. Why is that? Why is that? Because in order to trust in the Lord with all our hearts, it requires us to submit our reasoning, our wills, our emotive capacities, our human consciousness to the transcendent reality of who God is. That's why the Hebrew writer says if any man want to receive anything from God, he must first believe that God is. That's not mere mental assent to his existence. It is taken into full scope, embracing the full comprehension of the weight, scope, nature, will, character of who God is.

  6. 10:27

    That he's omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, loves us deeply, went to the cross for us. In order to receive anything from God, we must first believe that he is. And look what Proverbs chapter three verse six says, and in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your past straight. Again, that word acknowledge there is not mere mental ascent, but it's a Hebrew word, yada, which literally means to carry into every future engagement, every future encounter the full scope of God's faithfulness on your behalf. That includes his written word and your personal testimony of God's faithfulness. And this is where I'm going with this. The unfortunate reality of that in our day, We have loads of people who profess to be Christians, but in reality for all practical purposes, there are functional atheists. Now why do I say that? Because in all of their lives doing, it is a consistent testimony of leaning on their own understanding. Remember what I said? It is impossible to trust God with all our hearts when we have the consistent habitual lifestyle of relying on ourselves. Folks, that is humanism just exercised within a church cultural context. And in this day and age, Jeff was talking to me on the way in, we saw Kate Spade, Billionaire, you know, sold her company for $2.2 billion, after becoming a world renowned clothing designer, having over 180 something stores all over the country, the world would say, man, she's living it up. Then re-entered the design world, after taking time off to raise her daughter, And she took our own life with all of that. This morning, I learned of the news of Anthony Bourdain, the world-renowned celebrity chef and mixed martial artists to, you know, who are dating actresses or models. I don't know whatever it is.

  7. 12:28

    It takes his own life. You know why, folks? Because the world is looking for something. The world is looking for something. Roman says that the world quakes and groans. anticipation of the manifestation of the sons of God. Who are the sons of God? Those who are led by the Spirit of God, not those who are led by themselves. Functional atheism within a Christian context exercises itself, or it looks like a Christian who is prayerless. A Christian who lives according to their own agenda. A person who professes to be a believer with pretty good church attendance records, but when it comes down to the way we live our lives, It's by leaning on our own understanding. And it's amazing that the proverb writer uses the phrase, leaning. It gives the indication that this is a consistent manner of living and that they have to be snapped out of the leaning by some external force. Let today be the day where we resolve in our hearts, where we submit ourselves fully to the Lord. And if we find that we are those who have the habit of living the humanistic life while professionally be a believer living the life of relying on ourselves as opposed to relying on the one who knows all and has all power. That's the day be the day of adjustment because guess what? There's a world waiting to see what it looks like to have a fully switched on belief. Shiting light into the darkness, this is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio and urban family talk. Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner here on American Family Radio and Urban Family Talk. I am so excited to have who has become a pretty frequent guest now on the Hamilton corner of the Friends of the Program Dr. Walter E. Williams who is a Distinguished Professor of Economics at George Mason University and quite frankly in my opinion folks. He is a national treasure I just watched a documentary on him and I was produced a little while ago called suffer no fools Which I encourage you to find and to watch it is phenomenal. I know it's on YouTube I know it's on Amazon video in a couple other places, but dr. Williams Thank you so much for joining me on the program.

  8. 14:44

    How are you? Thank you for inviting me. Oh, you're very, very welcome. Well, I want to jump right into it because I have found amongst my generation, those that are younger, and even some that are a little bit older, they have come to the place where they fancy socialism. The New York Times wrote a glowing article in celebration of Karl Marx's birthday, and people are literally drinking this stuff up. I have done on this program an expose on the person of Karl Marx even before digging into his economic philosophy within socialism. But why are we out of place in our country where people, I mean we're just a few decades removed from Ronald Reagan saying Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall, why are people in America today warming up to socialism? Well, I was on the university and if you ask people, well, which areas.

  9. 16:51

    And so, now, for those who may be unfamiliar with these terms, I know most of my audience is familiar with it, but we get new listeners all the time, how would you define capitalism and then how would you define socialism? Well, I'd say that you engage in pure economic spectrum.

  10. 19:06

    You're absolutely right. And I've had this conversation with many people and many who would be, I would say, academically accomplished because I don't confuse academic accomplishment with education. That's a whole other story. But what would you say to people who say well Abraham really the constant conservatives willingness to refer to the failures of communists, Russia, socialists, Germany and so on, that's just because they didn't do socialism right. But look at the Scandinavian countries, they are a good example of socialism done right. What would you say to someone who would say that? that that is a larger they they be weak bingo or the and those yeah absolutely I think that one of the track for the United States that is the average yes that is into people come on doctor will you absolutely right and so do you think and and I mean you'll probably gather my opinion on this question in my question itself but do you do you think that the governments, uh, encroachments further and further into education by bureaucrats and elected officials is self-interested in that the-the-they are fomenting this collectivist and even this willingness to embrace, uh, government confiscation of one person's wealth and resources to forcibly use it- forcibly confiscate it to use it to give to others.

  11. 22:20

    Do you think the government is self-interested in gathering its control over education to foment this type of indoctrination you refer to that on the on the back end in this will be right while they're paying and reading I believe in and so to that and man this this this is the hand that I fan with because they're really only two options in this regard we are either in specifically the the leaders and the edge in the educational establishment we are either ignorant or real evil and in in from my standpoint I don't think the numbers you just cited I don't think that would be novel information for most of these people.

  12. 24:44

    Yet, we continue to pour trillions of dollars into what has been demonstrably a failure. The graduate that when you give a kiss that he can read and write at the twelfth and read and write at the eighth grade level, remedial math, so what that's saying to me. Bingo, you can't see me, but I'm sure my hand together rub my fingers together because they are chasing that paper. That's what they're looking to accomplish. And now many of the people getting back to the socialism conversation who are embracing socialism, they do so on the grounds that they would say socialism is inherently morally superior to capitalism. I mean, sorry, to capitalism. What say you to that? You know, when you are your private evil, that is, Thomas do need some gun from this against and he said that i think my finger on that that's not yet that's right that's right and then just one point about that and if you really limited that that oh my goodness and in the basic notion that is underscored here and overcome the close it to to the end of this interview our country has become absolutely ignorant concerning individual liberty and they are favoring many of them are beginning to favor collectivism instead of individual liberty.

  13. 29:54

    Why do you think that we have such a glowing romanticization of collectivism and neglect of individual liberty? Well, you know, I think that what we all have to recognize, personal liberty is rare in human affairs. That is for most of mankind's history, he's been subject to abuse and control by others. And I'm first that a historian writing 200 years from now He'll say, well, you know, there was this little tiny curiosity, mostly in the West, but where people had personal liberty and private property rights, but it all went back to the normal state of affairs. We got a jumping right there because we're about to hit this break. Dr. Williams, I told you guys he's a national treasure. Thank you so much for spending some time with us. And thanks for inviting me. Oh, you're very welcome. We'll have to have you back on the program. I mean, it's for the show this evening. Dr. Walter E. Williams, go to his website, walterewilliams.com. the E is for excellence. The Hamilton Corner Podcast and One-Minute Comment Terrence are available at EFR.net and UrbanFamilyTalk.com. Back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio and at Family Talk. Woo! Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner here in American Family Radio and Urban Family Talk. My gosh, I told you guys, Dr. Walter Williams is a national treasure. He just turned 82 years old recently, and I love talking to him. I think his approach to economics, beginning with the premise that as an individual, I own myself. And so any concept, let me say it this way, beginning with the premise that as an individual I own myself. It lays the foundation for the moral superiority for the free, as he described it, the free, peaceable, and voluntary exchange, because anything else, force is inherently immoral. We understand that in terms of murder, would be the force of taking of another's life. We understand that in terms of rape, would be the force of intrusion and evasion of another individual, well why don't we understand that economically?

  14. 32:19

    And I stand by my point that we have an uploaded federal government that is self-interested in expanding its own authority and preserving its own power that is willing to monetize and subsidize government-based indoctrination in the indoctrination camps that are often called schools to create the passive receptivity of the immoral, forcible intrusion upon the wealth resources and resources of other people to forcibly extract them and disseminate them to others. Folks, socialism and communism is inherently immoral because it is an intrusion upon the private property of another by force. Even if you attempt to paint the purposes for that intrusion as some justifiable good, it literally is, go with me here, the American government's function at this day in time and at this age literally is the personification of the notion that the ends justify the means. Because they present it as if, well, we're looking to help these people and to help this group of people, this group of people. So we have to forcibly extract your private property in order to accomplish that. It is a fundamental, fundamentally immoral proposition. A fundamentally immoral proposition. And I loved Dr. Williams's response to those who attempt to hold up the Scandinavian countries as an example of socialism done right when the reality is that they have the free market principles at play in enterprise, but you have extremely high notions of taxation. So the sources of revenues that bolster the socialistic distribution of means is free market principles. And we're seeing some of the same things happening in China.

  15. 34:20

    And it's just unfortunate that we have a large swaths of our society that we just helplessly are helplessly ignorant concerning capitalism. And Dr. Williams has an article on his website, you know, he writes for, you know, hundreds, hundreds of publications all over the country. And he's written a piece called Capitalism versus Socialism. And he says this in the piece, free market capitalism is disfavored by many Americans and threatened not because of its failure, but ironically because of its success. Free market capitalism in America America has been so successful in eliminating the traditional problems of mankind such as disease, pestilence, hunger, and gross poverty that all other human problems appear both unbearable and inexcusable." Isn't that ironic? Because our society enjoys so much freedom and we've had so many successes that any evidences of human difficulty are deemed inexcusable. And so we're at a place where we don't have an appropriate appreciation, nor an appropriate estimation for just how successful capitalism has been in our country. Now I'm going to turn to, and I said this earlier, and I didn't intend to go back to this, but I'm going to go back to this now because it seems like suicide and things of that nature only become sources for public conversation and public comment when it happens in the lives of celebrities. Frankly, that is the product of our idolatrous conditions concerning celebrities. But I think that these moments give stage, create a stage where those stage, create a stage where those of us who are Christians, we can enter the conversation with the gospel. You know, in the popular apologetic scripture, always being ready to give a reason for the hope that you have to anyone who asks you for the hope that you have. Because many of us, we're different lifestyles, we have different economic statuses and all these types of things.

  16. 36:50

    But one thing that's consistent in the life of believers is that we have a hope that transcends this life. And so I just want to gently remind us and to gently nudge you to not absent yourself from the conversation. To be a hundred percent frank, we have what the world is looking for in Jesus Christ. We have it. So why not share Him with the world? Why not share Him with the world? That in times of great difficulty we still have hope. In times of great success we still have hope. In times of, and lean times we have hope. And in abundant times we have hope. Why keep that to ourselves? Why keep it to ourselves? You know I made the reference to church culture and in many of our cities all over the country when you would have a conversation about Christianity the first response you get is I go to so-and-so's church. Or I go to such and such church. When the question was not where you go to church, the question is, are you a believer? Are you a Christ follower? And many people, misconstrued church attendance or even church membership were Christ following because in many places what we have is not Christianity, but we have what I call church-y-anity. Where we are familiar with church culture, we know, you know, how long the length of the The skirt should be, we know about A and B selections, we know the hymns, we know you're not supposed to chew gum, we know all of the rules, the do's, and the don'ts about going to church. But what do we know about following Christ? What do we know about giving our all? One small thing if you search the scriptures, and I know we say things, it's kind of tongue in cheek, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a place in the Bible where it says accept Jesus in your heart. If you search the scripture now, not just repeating what you've heard in church culture, not just repeating what you've been exposed to, but if you search the scripture, you'll find Jesus' encouragement was, were repent and believe.

  17. 39:02

    Repent and believe, submit your life to him. You know, and one of the differences in those two concepts is submission of one's life to Jesus' lordship is completely different from just accepting what you want to accept, take it and leave it like it's a buffet line. You know, the biblical admonition was repent. That means, metanoia, the Greek word for repent, with the mind, metta meaning with knowledge, with the mind to turn. In belief, pistus, a full investment of faith into the person and work of Jesus Christ. To say it differently, when you have a right understanding of repentance and submission of one's life to the Lord, the Lord, the Jesus Christ. You come to the only realistic biblical conclusion that, man, my life is not my own. I've been bought with the price. So as a result of having been purchased with his blood, I am now duty bound to give him my all. And what happens in too many of our communities is that, as the scripture says rightly, we have forms of godliness. We have a form of godliness and the form is dictated by the expectation and by the evaluation of our peers as opposed to it being a vertical evaluation and conclusion. So all I'm saying, man, I didn't plan to go into this, all I'm saying is let us not deprive the world of a true witness and let us be those witnesses. All right, well, this is probably the last story I'll get to for today. I don't know, we'll see. The Daily Caller has done some investigation, and they have concluded that four of the world's biggest tech platforms have working partnerships with a left-wing nonprofit that has a track record of inaccuracies and routinely labels conservative organizations as hate groups. If you listen to this program for any length of time, you probably already know who I am talking about, and you would be right, SBLC, the Southern Poverty Law Center.

  18. 41:11

    Facebook, Amazon, Google, and Twitter all work with or consult the Southern Poverty Law Center in policing their platforms for hate speech or hate groups. The SPLC is on a list of external experts and organizations that Facebook works with to inform their hate speech policies. Now Facebook's position is that well, they don't allow the SPLC to dictate to them their hate speech and hate groups policies, but they use the SPLC as established experts in the field. And they do this after, for example, having an anti-Muslim hate list that included Majid Nuaz, let me try to say his name properly, Majid Nuaz who threatened to shoot them. Now, if you don't know who Majid Nuaz is, he is himself a Muslim, but he has identified and jihadists and terrorists as being threats to the world. So here you have a person who is himself a Muslim that the SBLC had put on their hate list. Well, they then kind of went, oh my goodness, we kind of stepped in it on this one. So when they backed away, took him off. This is the same SBLC. They had I in Hercie Ali. I mean, this is amazing to me. A high in her Ciali is a woman who is a survivor of female genital mutilation, who goes around the world decrying female genital mutilation. Was born in Somalia, was elected official in the Netherlands.

  19. 43:13

    I mean goes all over the world saying, you know, it's wrong to mutilate females genitalia. Now yet the SVLC had her on their hate list. And of course, we can't leave out Ben Carson, who because he believes the Bible about marriage, they had him listed on their hate watch list, extremist watch list. And they had to with, you know, tongue, I mean, not with tail firmly placed between their legs, had to recant. And these are the people, these are the people that Facebook says, well, we wanna consult them to help us with our hate speech policies. Amazon, they're even worse. Amazon has a program called Amazon Smile that allows you and you buy stuff on Amazon to donate a small percentage of the purchase to the charity of your choice, right? Well, Amazon has given the SPLC full reign to govern this program. So Amazon has given SPLC the freedom to say who gets to participate in the Amazon Smile program and who does not? The same ones who put I in her Ciali, Majid Nwas, Ben Carson on the hate list. Of course, you know, American Family Association is determined to be a hate group by them. Family Research Council, hate group. No else they had listed as a hate group. Alliance Defending Freedom. Yeah, the same Christian legal organization that just won a victory for Jack Phillips at the US Supreme Court. But Amazon Smile has booted ADF from their program, why? Because SPLC says so. Google, which owns YouTube by the way, they use SPLC to regulate what goes on YouTube, using the flagging system. And it begs the question, when will, I'm answering my own question to my haters, I'm thinking about it.

  20. 45:20

    I was about to say, when will the mainstream media treat the SPLC the way they should be treated? which is as a discredited, unreliable entity that simply has anti-Christian, anti-U.S. Constitution and anti-American sentiments. That's what they are. And they have a history when they started, you know, they did some good things early on, but it's ridiculous at this stage folks, they have over $300 million. And they call themselves a Southern Poverty Law Center, They certainly ain't poor, put over $300 million, that much of which they invest in the Cayman Islands. What kind of nonprofit organization does that? You know, that is a civil rights organization. And they don't want hard to do any law. Like, last year they dedicated something like $3 million in litigation. I mean, I'm sorry for a national legal entity. That's very paltry. Folks, the SPOC is a money grab machine. And unfortunately, there are too many people in our country that allow them to wax expert-like when they really are just rather bigoted themselves, quite frankly. I mean, to put an organization like ADF, American Family Association, on your hate list. You know, it's absolutely ridiculous. I was just in Baton Rouge not too long ago with Gene Mills and Louisiana Family Forum, shout out to LFF. And they have worked, this has been a, and on the front lines, Christian Legal Policy Organization for decades. Actually, they were instrumental in me even going to law school. And they have participated in Louisiana in prison reform and in criminal law reform. And the SPLC on one hand wants to refer to the best champions for reform.

  21. 47:22

    Why can you say their champions to reform when you list them as haters? Folks, we have to call us pay to spade. And the longer that they are able to go on with the charade that they are neutral and detached, repository and evaluator of what is hateful and hate speech and all of that. It's absolutely ridiculous. And I would like for somebody to tell me how SBLC defines hate group and hate speech. Because actually when you evaluate it really is anything that they disagree with, they feel is hateful. So their line of demarcation, is you agree with us? You're good. You disagree on the list you go. And of course you can't forget 2012 that the Family Research Council was shot up by a person using SVOC's hate mask. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast do not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.

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